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The Overview Published: Feb 16, 2024

Key Excerpts from Tony Bobulinski’s Transcribed Interview

Below are key excerpts from Tony Bobulinski’ s transcribed interview. The full transcript can be found here.

Joe Biden was the brand being sold by the Biden family.

Page 12

Mr. Bobulinski. I want to be crystal‑clear:  From my direct personal experience and what I’ve subsequently come to learn, it is clear to me that Joe Biden was the brand being sold by the Biden family. 

Pages 43-44

Q. I’m going to read into the record what I believe is James Gilliar in the white message. “Man, would love to have you there for collective understanding.  Know it’s last minute.  Do understand of (sic) you cannot make it.  As for Hunter, I’m gonna kick his arse if he no shows, but in brand he’s imperative, but right now he’s not essential for adding input to business.  Your call, buddy.  Rob is in.” 


Mr. Bobulinski.  James Gilliar knew from day one what he was doing.  You showed me the message in December 2015 what he was doing.  He knew he was taking the ‑‑ call it the second most powerful family in the United States and putting them in business with one of the top ten largest companies in China with extremely close ties to the Chinese Communist Party.  And, once again, don’t take my word for that.  Go read the eight days of testimony in the SDNY where they convicted a CEFC executive of corruption, money laundering, and a variety of other things, and sent him to prison for three years. 

So he’s just talking about the Biden name and the power of using that to move the Chinese forward.  And to your question on Hunter’s services, he wasn’t providing much service of anything at that point.  He was providing his name and the power of his family and what they’ve developed over the prior 50 years.  And don’t ‑‑ once again, just to clarify ‑‑ don’t take my word for that.  Hunter Biden says that in his own words.

Joe Biden not only knew about his family’s business dealings, but he enabled them and participated in them, despite being buffered by a scheme to maintain “plausible deniability.”

Page 12

Mr. Bobulinski. His family’s foreign influence‑peddling operation, from China to Ukraine and elsewhere, sold out to foreign actors who were seeking to gain influence and access to Joe Biden and the United States Government.  Joe Biden was more than a participant in and a beneficiary of his family’s business; he was an enabler, despite being buffered by a complex scheme to maintain plausible deniability. 

The only reason any of these international business transactions took place, with tens of millions of dollars flowing directly to the Biden family, was because Joe Biden was in high office. The Biden family business was Joe Biden, period. 

Pages 45-46

Mr. Bobulinski. And one of the things that strikes me most about that conversation ‑‑ remember, I went through my military background, the fact that I held a Q security clearance, the highest security clearance issued by the Department of Energy ‑‑ and I’m sitting with the son of the former Vice President of the United States.  And he’s sitting there telling me, as I ask him questions about his interaction with his father and his father’s knowledge of this deal and other deals, and Hunter Biden was not shy about saying, “My father picks up the phone.  I can call him from anywhere around the world.  Do you want me to get him on the phone now?”  I didn’t.  But he would use that terminology. 


Mr. Bobulinski.  ‑‑ Bedingfield was one of them.  He said, “Oh, she’s the biggest challenge to me getting to my father.  But he takes my phone calls any time of day, and I just take things to him.”  Because I asked him just from a sense of care.  Like, these are people I’m going to do business with.  I had built a successful franchise.  My name was well‑respected around the world.  People trusted me with billions of dollars investing in a variety of things. 

And I was asking him, “This doesn’t sort of make sense to me.  I would think your dad has an army of lawyers around him that are putting a wall between you talking about stuff.”  And he sort of just laughed it off.  He was very emboldened, confident, that, you know, he had access to his father whenever, wherever he wanted.

And the only reason why I give you that background is that was sort of the predicate to them then saying, “Hey, my father’s coming in.  Let’s get together with my father while he’s here.”

Page 14

I personally met with Joe Biden in Los Angeles in May of 2017 multiple times to discuss the broad contours of business dealings.  The only reason why Joe Biden met with me privately during the Milken Institute Global Conference and seated me at his head table was because I was a business associate of the Biden family. 

Pages 50-51

Q. After Hunter Biden said that he wanted to go talk with his father briefly, what happened next?

A. So then they came into the bar.  I stood up.  Obviously, you know, we shook some hands.  And I think Hunter made a comment of something like, you know, “Dad, this is Tony who I’ve told you about,” and the stuff we’re working on with the Chinese.  I don’t ‑‑ it was years ago.  I don’t remember the exact term, but he sort of set the stage for the meeting.  I shook his hands, and we sat down.  And I think the meeting was, you know, 45 minutes to an hour.  I remember going through my background in detail.  I was very proud of it.  I think he actually went first out of, you know, obviously, general respect at the time, and, you know, talked about some of the things they had dealt with as a family, their appreciation for the military, and stuff like that.  And Jim and Hunter didn’t do a lot of talking, as you can imagine. 

Page 52

Q. And did Joe Biden say anything to you when you went out to the car?

A. You know, when I went backstage, it was, as you can imagine, you know, it was ‑‑ it was a tight space, there were a lot of people getting, you know, just water and having different discussions.  But, you know, in the walk out to the car, you know, he thanked me.  And I just remember a comment of, “Hey, you know, look out for my brother and son and, you know, thank you for what you’re doing” kind of thing. 

Page 53

Mr. Bobulinski. And I was asking [Jim Biden], “How are you doing it?  It doesn’t make any sense.  Aren’t you guys concerned that if Joe does run for President of the United States in the future that you guys are doing business directly with the Chinese?”  Which, you know, at that point my limited understanding of CEFC versus my knowledge now, but any ‑‑ any of the companies of ‑‑ in the ten largest in China have relationships with the government.  They have to.  That’s the only way they get there.

And so I’m asking him ‑‑ not from a criminal perspective.  If I had criminal concerns at that point, I would have got up and walked out of there.  My questions were focused on political headlines.  “How are you guys doing this?  It makes no sense to me.  Why would you take this risk to yourself, to your family’s brand that Hunter screams about, and all that stuff?”  And he looks at me and sort of chuckles and says, “Plausible deniability.” 

Pages 129-130

Mr. Bobulinski. And earlier this morning when I read Rob Walker’s testimony and he tries to obfuscate, like, “Whoa, Hunter Biden was on drugs, that’s why he was invoking his father,” or stuff like that, it’s just so absurd.  I met Joe Biden face‑to‑face.  These guys were talking about having Joe Biden come to New York and sit face‑to‑face with Chairman Ye while we were formalizing this deal.  And for every one of these guys to now have amnesia or, like, you know, claim that, “Oh, Hunter wasn’t really talking about his father” is just absurd.  The American people deserve the truth. 

Pages 138-139

Q. So anyone, any politician or any elected official who goes out and peddles that Joe Biden’s not involved with Hunter Biden’s business, they’re peddling false information, correct?

A. They’re lying.  It’s a blatant lie.  You have stacks of evidence that Joe Biden showed up at meetings, shook hands, participated in phone calls, all the way back to last summer.

Imagine Devon Archer going in front of the world, facing jail time, a Democrat lifetimer, whatever ‑‑ I don’t know his political affiliation, but, you know, he was business partners with, you know, the Bidens for years ‑‑ comes out and tells the world that Joe Biden was on 20‑plus phone calls? 

But what was he calling for?  Why?  He was calling to demonstrate the Biden brand to whoever was in that meeting, whether it was the Ukrainians, the Romanians, the Russians, Colombians, Chinese, whoever it was.  That’s all he had to do.  He didn’t have to say, “Well, hey, what about that deal?  Where are we getting the money to fund that?”  Just him being on the phone is evidence of involvement and enabling the transaction.  And any statement otherwise is an absurd statement.

Pages 265-266

Q. Okay.  Was Mr. Walker ‑‑ you had a telephone call with him where he related to you that he thought ‑‑ I think he said something along the lines of, “Tony, you’re going to bury us.” 

A. Correct.

Q. What can you tell us about that call and why do you think Rob Walker said that?

A. So this goes back to the time of October 2020.  Remember, the minority was asking me questions on this of like, “Well, when did you exactly realize you were going to go public and, you know, what caused it” and stuff like that. 

Throughout October 2020, I had numerous discussions with James Gilliar and Rob Walker talking about, “Guys, we lived these facts.  I met with Joe Biden.  You guys know Joe Biden was involved.  This is going to come out.  I would rather come out ‑‑ all of us come out on the record and present the facts to the American people than somebody else tell the story, like the Bidens telling the story or their Democratic operatives and stuff like that and obfuscating what truly happened.” 

Joe Biden is “the Big Guy.”

Pages 116-117

Mr. Bobulinski. Then the distribution of the equity.  Now, previously, we had gone through the actual documents that were signed for Oneida Holdings, and the bubble diagram was used to spell out the different ownership. 

But this shows 20 percent for H.  H is Hunter Biden; 20 percent for RW is Rob Walker; 20 percent for JG is James Gilliar; 20 percent for TB, that’s me, Tony Bobulinski; and then it says 10 for Jim, and that’s Jim Biden. 

And then it says, “10 held for H for the big guy.”  The H in that message is Hunter Biden, and the big guy ‑‑ 100 percent ‑‑ is Joe Biden. 

Q. Why do you say that 100 percent?

A. It’s crystal clear.  There’s nobody else who they would be listing as the big guy.  Remember, this email was drafted to me with an expectation that no outside party ‑‑ this wouldn’t be part of congressional hearings.  These guys are all low‑key.  I was low‑key.  Well, why was he using code?  Why is he calling Hunter “H”?  Why is he using “the big guy”?  Well, because that’s the way James Gilliar communicated because of his intel background and the things he was doing around the world.  But when he says “10 held by H for the big guy,” it’s Joe Biden. 

I saw that you released the transcript of Rob Walker this morning.  I read it quickly.  I looked through some things, and I saw that he wouldn’t answer the question on who the big guy is.  I was surprised he would lie to you because he was under ‑‑ he wasn’t under sworn oath, but under penalties of, you know, Congress ‑‑ that he would lie to you and act like he didn’t know who the big guy was.  The big guy was Joe Biden.  That’s who they were talking about.  And then the other lie that’s been told for the last 4 years, including by Hunter Biden’s lawyers, was that nobody responded to this email.  You’ve seen that comment, right?  I think Rob Walker referenced it in his testimony. 

Hunter Biden responded to this email I think three‑plus times, and I believe you guys have them if Rob Walker produced the emails.  If I haven’t produced them, we will make sure you have them.  Hunter Biden himself responded to this exact email at a minimum two, maybe three times.  And what did he respond in those emails?  He didn’t ask, “James, who the heck are you talking about?  Who is the big guy?” 

Pages 120-121

Mr. Bobulinski. This deal originally started 25 percent all four of us.  Jim Biden was not involved in the equity, okay?  Zero.  We all had 25 percent.  And so now I’m looking at nearly a 20‑percent haircut on my original equity. 

And I’m demanding them to justify why, all of a sudden, Jim Biden ‑‑ who, in the expectations email, had 10 percent ‑‑ Hunter was going to hold 10 percent for his father ‑‑ to now we’re talking about Jim getting 20 percent, equal ownership, which means Biden is 40 percent, me with a 20‑percent haircut.  So does that answer your question?

Q. So the three ‑‑ yes.  The three Biden family members who were proposed to benefit from the SinoHawk deal were Hunter Biden, James Biden, and Joe Biden, correct?

A. Those were the three Biden family members that were supposed to participate in the deal based on the expectations discussion on May 13th.  And, as I publicly said on Tucker Carlson, I wasn’t involved in the family side of the discussions between the three of them, however the dynamics of the Biden family are.  The final document ended up, obviously, the big guy or Joe Biden not being in the cap table, and, all of a sudden, miraculously, Jim Biden went from a 10‑percent ownership to a 20‑percent ownership. 

Joe Biden has repeatedly lied to the American people about his knowledge of and participation in his family’s business dealings.

Page 275

Q. You just made a comment about Joe Biden being a public ‑‑ or, excuse me, Joe Biden being a private citizen, but I want to talk to you a little bit about ‑‑ and you mentioned it earlier.  While Joe Biden was a candidate for President of the United States, a statement that he made, saying, “My family has made no money from China.”  Is that accurate?

A. That’s an absolute lie.  He lied to the American people.  I was sitting in the audience when he made that lie.  And I publicly said on Tucker Carlson, “I sit here with regret.  I should have jumped over the rails there at the ‑‑ I should have made more of a scene about it.” 

Page 276

Q. And, as President, Joe Biden has stated that he’s never talked with any of the Biden family business associates.  Is that accurate?

A. That’s an absolute lie.  And you don’t have to take just my word for it.  You have Devon Archer.  You have thousands of documents.  You have other participants.  You believe whistleblower Shapley and Ziegler.  You have enough evidence, because people love to use that word, especially it’s shocking to me the lawyers are using that. 

A Chinese Communist Party linked energy company, CEFC, sought to infiltrate and compromise Joe Biden and the Obama‑Biden White House.

Page 13

The Chinese Communist Party, through its surrogate, China Energy Company Limited, or CEFC, a CCP‑linked Chinese energy conglomerate, successfully sought to infiltrate and compromise Joe Biden and the Obama‑Biden White House. This process started in the fourth quarter of 2015 and continued through when Joe Biden left office in January 2017, through March 2018, when CEFC Chairman Ye was detained for corruption in China, never to be seen again. 

Note that on October 21, 2015, Joe Biden announced that he would not seek the Presidency in 2016.  It’s not a coincidence that CEFC’s aggressive approach to the Biden family happened around that same time. It is also not a coincidence that CEFC used the Biden family’s weakest link, Hunter Biden, and the promise of large sums of money, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars initially and eventually the profits from investing billions of dollars in the United States and around the world. 

Pages 33-34

Q. What is CEFC?

A. So CEFC, on a first glance, was a very large holding company based in China that had numerous subsidiaries that operated around the world and was investing tens of billions of dollars in a variety of projects in numerous countries in Europe, you know, Russia, China, the Middle East, South America, and Africa. 

And, during this time, if you go back in time and look at it, Ye Jianming was flying around on an Airbus 300, dropping down in countries with an entourage of 10 to 20 people deep, and would take meetings and try to instigate his leverage and ability to network into a variety of governments. 

And don’t take my word for it; the reason why I asked my lawyers for this huge binder here with 9 tabs and 1,200 pages of legal transcripts is, this is an 8‑day trial of Patrick Ho, who was a CEFC executive, in the Southern District of New York for corruption, bribery, money laundering. 

The reason why I bring that up is because this was all obfuscated from the American people.  Yes, it’s in the public domain, but it hasn’t been reported on, who actually CEFC was.  And, in that trial, one of the witnesses was specifically asked to redact the Biden name, from testimony by Vuk Jeremic. 

And so, to ask who CEFC is, it would take me hours to go through it.  It took the Southern District of New York 8 days, numerous witnesses, numerous political officials from all over the world, and ended with Patrick Ho being convicted of corruption and put in a U.S. jail for 3 years. 

And so, at this moment, when he asked me who CEFC was, I thought it was a large ‑‑ one of the top 10 operating businesses with, I think, $50 billion of revenue in mainland China.  But as I sit here before these two committees, who CEFC is is much different than who I thought they were on March 5, 2016. 

According to Tony Bobulinski, Joe Biden engaged in misconduct and possible illegal activity.

Page 14

The facts we are going to discuss today appear to me to present disturbing evidence, which these committees should thoroughly investigate, with respect to possible violations by Joe Biden of the Foreign Agents Registration Act; anti‑corruption and public integrity statutes; the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act; and the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, known as RICO. 

Page 139

Q. So, knowing what you know now about CEFC, the statement that Joe Biden never committed any wrongdoing, would you consider that a true statement?

A. I would not, as I sit here today. 

During the transcribed interview, Democrats put on a shameful display as they yelled at Mr. Bobulinski, cut him off, belittled him, and threatened him.

Page 62

Mr. Goldman.  You want to be a little careful, sir.

Mr. Bobulinski.  Careful of what? 

Mr. Goldman.  Being incredibly disrespectful.  I don’t appreciate it. 

Mr. Bobulinski.  I’m not trying to be disrespectful.

Page 64

Mr. Bobulinski.  Please let me finish.  I have a right to finish. 

Mr. Goldman.  No, I will not let you finish, because what you’re talking about is, once again, you opining on what evidence says or doesn’t say, what conclusions it reaches. 

Pages 67-68

Mr. Goldman.  I’d like to see it right now because this is absurd this guy –

Minority Counsel.  Counsel, I just want to be clear –

Mr. Bobulinski.  Excuse me.  This guy? 

Minority Counsel.  I’m sorry.  Mr. Bobulinski.

Mr. Bobulinski.  You don’t have to raise your voice to me. 

Minority Counsel.  This is a transcribed interview. 

Mr. Bobulinski.  It is.

Minority Counsel.  We will ask questions.  You will answer them. 

Mr. Bobulinski.  You don’t have to raise your voice to me. 

Mr. Raskin.  Mr. Bobulinski, it goes a lot better if you answer the questions and otherwise not interject. 

Mr. Bobulinski.  I have answered the questions. 

Mr. Raskin.  But we’re hearing nothing –

Mr. Bobulinski.  Your co‑Member just accused me –

Mr. Raskin.  Excuse me. 

Mr. Bobulinski.  ‑‑ of accusing six Federal agents of lying. 

Mr. Raskin.  Would someone instruct this out‑of‑control witness to stop –

Page 70

Mr. Bobulinski.  Can I ‑‑ I want to respond to that.  Could I have two minutes to respond to that? 

Minority Counsel.  No.

Mr. Bobulinski.  I can’t?

Ms. Ginstling.  No.  You can do it during the majority’s –

Mr. Raskin.  Let counsel resume. 

Page 94

Mr. Bobulinski.  I don’t think you do, Mr. Goldman. 

But they came in to take an image of my phone at –

Mr. Goldman.  I understand a lot better than you do.  I can tell you that much. 

Mr. Bobulinski.  ‑‑ at the end ‑‑ I would disagree with you. 

Page 98

Mr. Bobulinski.  And so I simply –

Mr. Raskin.  Excuse me.  Mr. Garcia –

Mr. Bobulinski.  You don’t have to raise your voice at me, Mr. Raskin. 

Mr. Raskin.  Yeah, well, you don’t have to filibuster, okay? 

Mr. Bobulinski.  I’m trying to answer your question.

Page 102

Mr. Bobulinski.  Are you wagging your finger at me, Congressman?  Out of respect, I would ask you not to. 

Page 158

Mr. Bobulinski.  I think you want to sit back and think and re‑ask that question, Mr. Goldman.  I don’t ‑‑ I am confused by what you’re asking me.

Mr. Goldman.  I’m sorry.  I’ll try to dumb it down.

Mr. Bobulinski.  Okay.  I appreciate that.

Page 277

Chairman Comer.  I just want to say, on behalf of the Oversight Committee, first of all, we thank you for coming in.  And this may still be going on.  I’m going to have to run over.  They just called votes.   But I apologize for the way the Democrats acted and the staff acted and the way they treated you.  I’ve never seen that display of pathetic behavior in a deposition before.  I apologize for their behavior, but I appreciate what you’ve said here today.  It’s very helpful. 

Democrats continue to lie about Mr. Bobulinski’ s testimony. While the transcribed interview was ongoing, Ranking Member Raskin and Rep. Goldman spoke to press, claiming Mr. Bobulinski was a jilted business partner and would-be business partner. Mr. Bobulinski refuted these claims.

Page 273

Q. So you’d agree that someone calling you a jilted business partner would be a mischaracterization of your testimony today?

A. I do.


Q. And we’ve talked at length about the executed business agreement.  In fact, it was entered into the record.  You’ve been asked questions about that. 

So, if someone walked out of this room and called you a would‑be business partner, maybe implying that you weren’t a business partner with the Bidens, is that accurate?

A. That is not accurate.  It’s another lie.  I was a business partner with the Bidens.  I was the CEO of a fully operating business called SinoHawk Holdings and Oneida Holdings, LLC.  I was traveling the world.  We talked about the meeting in Romania where the Chinese were talking about deploying three to five hundred million dollars of equity into a deal. 

Page 274

Q. We talked about text messages, meetings, emails, input on the deals, business partners talking about Joe Biden, Joe Biden meeting you, Joe Biden meeting Chairman Ye today. 

If someone walked out of this room and said that Joe Biden wasn’t involved with anything, would that be an accurate statement of your testimony?

A. It’s an absolute lie to the American, people and the reason why I’m sitting here and am willing to sit here for as much time and days that you guys need to get the facts out to the American people.  That’s an absolute lie, and it’s absurd.