Wenstrup Releases Former NIH Director Francis Collins’s Transcript, Highlights Key Takeaways in New Memo
WASHINGTON — Today, Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic Chairman Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) released the transcript from Dr. Francis Collins’s transcribed interview. Dr. Collins helped lead the government’s COVID-19 pandemic response as the Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) until his resignation at the end of 2021. In conjunction with the transcript, the Select Subcommittee also released a new staff memo that highlights the key takeaways from Dr. Collins’s transcribed interview. The memo can be found here.
The full transcript can be found here. Below are important exchanges from Dr. Collins’s transcribed interview:
The hypothesis that the COVID-19 pandemic was the result of a lab leak or lab related accident is not a conspiracy theory. Despite previously disagreeing with the lab leak theory — both in public and in private — Dr. Collins testified that the lab leak hypothesis is indeed not a conspiracy theory.
Majority Counsel: “All it’s calling for is a “yes” or “no.” Is the possibility of a lab leak a conspiracy theory?”
Dr. Collins: “You have to define what you mean by a lab leak.”
Majority Counsel: “Putting aside de novo, the possibility of a laboratory or research-related accident, a researcher doing something in a lab, getting infected with a virus, and then sparking the pandemic. Is that scenario a conspiracy theory”?
Dr. Collins: “Not at this point.”
…
Majority Counsel: “We have talked about this an awful lot, I think I know the answer to the question, but I want to ask it. Is the origin of COVID-19 still unsettled science?”
Dr. Collins: “Yes.”
The “6 feet apart” social distancing guidance that federal public health officials endorsed was likely not based on any science or data. Dr. Collins agreed with Dr. Fauci that he has not seen any evidence to support the “6 feet apart” directive — which was promoted by public health officials and caused widespread economic and social damage to Americans.
Majority Counsel: “Moving on to social distancing and the various regulations surrounding that. On March 22, 2020, the CDC issued guidance describing social distancing to include remaining out congregant settings, avoiding mass gatherings, and maintaining a distance of approximately six feet from others when possible. We asked Dr. Fauci where the six feet came from and he said it kind of just appeared, is the quote. Do you recall science or evidence that supported the six-feet distance?”
Dr. Collins: “I do not.”
Majority Counsel: “Is that I do not recall or I do not see any evidence supporting six feet?”
Dr. Collins: “I did not see evidence, but I’m not sure I would have been shown evidence at that point.”
Majority Counsel: “Since then, it has been an awfully large topic. Have you seen any evidence since then supporting six feet?”
Dr. Collins: “No.”
NIH often lacks the necessary subject matter expertise to ensure U.S. taxpayer funds are spent safely. Concerningly, Dr. Collins was unaware of any NIH policy that ensures foreign laboratories comply with U.S. standards and are not at odds with U.S. national interests.
Majority Counsel: “Thank you. We’ve asked a number of people regarding the vetting or certifying process of foreign labs that receive U.S. dollars. Do you know what that process is?”
Dr. Collins: “I do not.”
Majority Counsel: “To your knowledge, does NIH certify foreign labs that receive U.S. dollars?”
Dr. Collins: “I don’t know that.”
…
Majority Counsel: “Again, what we’re trying to figure out is if, like, you get a proposal that has a foreign lab on it, if the NIH would do all the work themselves, or if they would call the State Department, or if they would call some other department to try to determine if that foreign lab is reputable.”
Dr. Collins: “I don’t know.”
The Trump Administration led the charge to rightfully terminate and later suspend EcoHealth Alliance, Inc.’s grant in April 2020. Dr. Collins testified that he supported every enforcement action suggested by the Trump Administration and executed by the NIH.
Majority Counsel: “Moving into 2020. Before we start with individual letters, we asked Dr. Lauer and he testified that he would not sign or send a letter that he disagreed with. Do you have any reason to doubt that assertion?”
Dr. Collins: “No.”
Majority Counsel: “Do you agree with every enforcement action the NIH took against EcoHealth?”
Dr. Collins: “Yes.”
Dr. Collins claims that Dr. Fauci invited him to participate in the infamous February 1, 2020 phone call that allegedly “prompted” the public narrative that COVID-19 originated from nature and that vilified the lab leak hypothesis. This testimony directly contradicts earlier statements made by Dr. Fauci.
Majority Counsel: “How were you made aware of this call?”
Dr. Collins: “I was, I think – again, it’s four years ago – initially informed by Dr. Fauci that the call was happening. And then, I think I got this email forwarded about what the agenda was going to be from Dr. Farrar, who was clearly the person organizing the call.”
Majority Counsel: “Did Dr. Fauci ask you to join the call?”
Dr. Collins: “Yes.”
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